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Author Topic: hydro assist  (Read 5844 times)
dirtnerd
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« on: March 08, 2009, 12:31:31 PM »

i got my junkyard steering box all apart and ordered a seal rebuild kit for it.  I just need to tap the ports for the hydraulic lines.  Anyone have any ideas on what size ram to buy?  it looks like people use 1.5" for jeeps and 2" for full size trucks.  I can buy 1" and 1.5", but cant find a 1.25".  I'm leaning toward the 1.5".
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tacowillys
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« Reply #1 on: March 09, 2009, 12:09:03 PM »

Real men dont need power steering Grin.  The piston diameter is going to affect the performance more than the ram size.  The problem with the larger piston/ram is the amount of fluid you need to provide for its movment.  So you may have to add a larger reservoir to your pump.  If this is just an hydraulic assist ram I dont think you will be needing anything too butch.  Brent has a stock assist ram from a ford pickup on his CJ and Fred is running full hydraulic.  I would ask them their sizes for real world experience.   My guess woulg be the 1" would be fine as a steering assist ram.
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PJ1
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« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2009, 05:00:15 PM »

From what I have seen with factory ram assist the cylenders are 1". If you look for a GM C70 truck you will find the cyl you are looking for and both hose connections are at the same end of the cyl. Trying to find a Ford version isn't impossible but its not very likely. GM used this setup for quite awile in the medium duty trucks where Ford was limited to the "highboy" in the mid to late 70's. You could also try Mitten Fluid power in Syracuse they stock tons of cyls in various configurations, sizes and strokes.
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dirtnerd
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« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2009, 05:39:25 PM »

the force should be proportional to the piston area.  in that case, the 1" will only put out 1/4 the force of the 1.5".  From what I've read online, it seems like the standard jeep TC pump that I'm running should push the 1.5" w/ as is or with some minor modification, and 1.5" is also what comes in all the jeep aftermarket kits.  I  was considering the 1" just because I dont want to break shit on my front axle.  I've heard of people bending tie rods and shearing steering arm studs if the tires get wedged real good into the rocks, but there's also a lot of stupid people out there that dont know when to let up.  On the other hand, I'd hate to install the 1" and find out it doesnt have the nut i was hoping for.  As far as finding a ram, I don't think its worth searching the junkyard.  you can buy a new cylinder from a hydraulic supply store for about $90.

I figured out the best places to tap my steering box (I only had to ruin one junkyard box to figure out where the thickest metal to tap was).  so all i need to do now is buy the parts once i decide on a the ram size.
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PJ1
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« Reply #4 on: March 11, 2009, 06:45:00 AM »

Using 1000psi as a base line the 1" cyl w/.50" ROD will give you 785# of push on the blind end and 589# on the rod end. A 1.5" cyl w/.75" rod will net you 1766# on the blind end and 1325# on the rod end. The pump doesn't regulate the psi just the flow which is proportionate to the rpm. The steering box control valve controls the pressure and I belive you are running a Toyota box and its, according to the service manual, regulated at 1136psi minumum. If you have the Toyota PPS box with the vacuum regulator then it drops to 556psi above 1800rpm if the vacuum lines are connected. The 1.5" cyl will make a big difference but remember if its not a double ended cyl then it has more force on the blind end then the rod end. Also if you run a double ended cyl then don't forget to account for the rod on your calculations. If the cyls you see online are double ended then a 1.5" cyl is about the equivlant of a 1.25" on the blind end. The rod area is a important factor to consider it will have an effect on force and velocity.
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dirtnerd
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« Reply #5 on: March 11, 2009, 02:02:04 PM »

ok. so what size should I use?
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tacowillys
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« Reply #6 on: March 11, 2009, 03:51:10 PM »

Im a fan of whatever is the cheapest and most readily available for when it fails.  Maybe you can go redneck and add a couple of fittings in the ends of a steering stabilizer and make a self dampining hydro assist ram.  I bet it would work partialy at least once.  I also would want to be behind a solid wall for the first pressurization test.
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dirtnerd
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« Reply #7 on: March 11, 2009, 04:11:00 PM »

i think we're the only 3 people that use this forum...
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luvsmud
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« Reply #8 on: March 11, 2009, 05:02:44 PM »

na i have been looking every couple days, so 4 people  Grin
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tacowillys
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« Reply #9 on: March 12, 2009, 06:25:20 AM »

If you use it, they will come.
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S-Cubed
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« Reply #10 on: March 12, 2009, 07:46:26 AM »

Make it 5 - I too check in periodically to learn a few new things from you guys...
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PJ1
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« Reply #11 on: March 13, 2009, 12:03:15 PM »

I am going out now but I will figure it out and get back to you Sat using the Toyota axle, 35" tires and Toyota streering box (nonPPS) This will get you back to the original stock 8.8lbs steering effort. Are you using the PPS Toyota steering box (vacuum switch behind sector shaft adjustment)Huh If so the effort is variable from 6.5lbs to 8.8lbs depending on engine load.
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dirtnerd
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« Reply #12 on: March 13, 2009, 03:09:02 PM »

no its the suzuki steering box.  I have no idea what the system pressure is. 

But I think I'll go w/ the 1.5" ram.  that seems to be the standard.
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PJ1
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« Reply #13 on: March 15, 2009, 05:35:34 AM »

I see you are going with the 1.5" ram. After digging up my old 84 Toyota service manuals (needed for alingnment specs) I was able to calculate that you could use a 1.18" ram .5" rod with the Toyota box but the pump displacement is not quite up to the task. I see you are not using either unit so this won't help you but, it wasn't a complete waste of time, now know what I need if the 94 gets the knife. I will note that the only problem the TC pump has is the rotor to shaft connection is prone to failure otherwise its a good choice for a remote reservoir setup and should work when you go to full hyd.
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dirtnerd
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« Reply #14 on: March 15, 2009, 06:08:15 AM »

thanks. i would have done a 1.25" cylinder, but I couldn't find one online anywhere.  The picture shows where I tapped the geo / suzuki steering box.  This was my test housing. unfortunately I cant use this one due to the third hole that I f-d up on top. Not too many people use this steering box on SAS'd tracker, so I couldn't find any pictures online for inspiration.  Everyone seems to upgrade to toyota box at the same time.  I tried to tap on top where you would for a toyota, but the metal is just too thin.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2009, 06:14:09 AM by dirtnerd » Logged
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